http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#b6bc0081-444a-4b6d-b127-10ff6e851c3b Use the search link, above, to find Clowns Without Borders. Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:32:07 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#b6bc0081-444a-4b6d-b127-10ff6e851c3b =Eric 2008-12-14T12:32:07Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#b9b1651c-7872-42d7-b156-3fa330178970 and i'm really not interested in a public/flame war but i am still interested in this topic so i'm moving this to pm. Sat, 13 Dec 2008 05:23:08 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#b9b1651c-7872-42d7-b156-3fa330178970 nilambari 2008-12-13T05:23:08Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#5f63727d-6a14-4c10-b0f5-7086332094d3 oh, i thought you said you lived there for 9 years... regardless i've lived in india(n villages with indian families) for extended periods of time so i've also lived in third-world circumstances. in fact, i also had your very same concerns when i heard they'd be going there last year (safety, ego, actual effectiveness, etc.) but they did well and learned a lot. of course, language will HELP TONS with communication but plenty of performance communicates without words even cross-culturally. no, i'm not in that performance group. (why, ya wanna hire me?) oh, and when i think of benefiting myself i think of benefiting my growth and progress as a person, actually (i.e., as opposed to engaging in activities where i'm someone's parasitic host) but apparently you engage in self-interested activities differently... [[ again, you've read into a merely vague indication something negative which actually was not there (or ever), at all ]] anyway my thought on their trip to india, before they left was that if they did have some ignorant and/or arrogant american ego expectations about it their trip would break them of it, certainly... so i gave them all the kind advice that i could and wished them fond farewell... i mean, seriously if you REALLY suspect they *might* really be so ignorant/arrogant the BEST thing you could do (for their impoverished audience-to-be) is hook them up with your enlightened friends!! sheesh. Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:41:24 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#5f63727d-6a14-4c10-b0f5-7086332094d3 nilambari 2008-12-13T04:41:24Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#13406eb3-bac2-4227-9f32-24add8a5acc2 Bullshit. One is not going to teach much (his posting made no mention of learning from the impoverished down there) without the language. That was one of the BIG flags on his posting. It was on the wrong forum and in English. And skip the "well duh's", group after group has given such amateur adventures a real bad name. This group sound like just one more in a long tradition. Yeah I know that groups of Americans successfully pull of these trips. And I am SO IMPRESSED that they could visit India. That makes them gurus at least. I also know how my neighbors in Central America felt about such groups of people that did so fiiine. It is kind of different in the impoverishment down there after the tour group has left. Do you have any idea of how harsh the bitterness is dealing with affluent people handing out tokens so that they can tell themselves that they were something more than a tourist? Well if you do not speak Spanish, you can stay insulated from people's comments and you will depend on those who translate. Do you think that they will translate the slurs and bitter remarks? There is nothing like being poor and helping some Americans inflate their already inflated egos. That posting did not make me want to pass his name on to anyone I knew. And yours even less, as your tribe profile states, you are in this for yourself. I can not see what you might have to offer, both postings are really written from the point of view of what experiences you plan to consume. That was an arrogant bullshit answer. To blow off my concerns so glibly, as you do, only makes me feel more concerned. Are you in this group we should be so thankful to give contacts to and host? The people of the third world are not our play toys to make us feel that we are doing something grand. What what the fuck do I know, I only lived "down there" for eleven years. d Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:46:08 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#13406eb3-bac2-4227-9f32-24add8a5acc2 don 2008-12-13T03:46:08Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#e646f0a2-d866-494e-aedb-554ea72cdf68 hmm, don. i think the most helpful response you gave was merely the first line... as you seem to've read many indications from alex's request which simply are not there. alex said, "I'm currently researching different parts of South America," and you "react to that kind of statement with some serious concern"? he asked for connections and information -- so you asked him if he already has connections (?) or a precise itinerary / schedule [uhh, but if he's asking for connections...] and told him he needs to get more (information and) connections (??). (i also wonder what your retort of "really?and you're asking for contacts on tribe.net?" is supposed to indicate, actually -- why not on tribe...) as far as "you might find that you have much to learn from the people 'down there' not just something to teach" well, duh -- most (quality) human interactions are two-way streets what to speak of (quality) performance but i'm sure you do realize that his going with intention to GIVE [something] IS a *very* good origin of intent as he's obviously not a (mere) tourist. as for your suggestion that he "develop a serious set of partners" -- you've no indication at all that his partners aren't very serious (just that they are in the beginning stages of planning a new trip). btw, it's not actually *necessary* know a foreign language "with a high level of fluency" to visit a place. sheesh. ...his troupe went to india. i'm sure they'll do fiiiiiine in south america. Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:08:55 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#e646f0a2-d866-494e-aedb-554ea72cdf68 nilambari 2008-12-13T01:08:55Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#61f64fda-06ab-4e61-8ce8-d24fb351ea11 Thanks for the link Don. Sorry for the vague post, I agree that it sounds less than informed, but please allow me to clarify. I'm doing some primary research for the Dreamtime Circus for next November or December into early 2010 (rainy season for Bolivia, I know). I certainly didn't want to imply that we'd be barging into areas without invitation or research done. We tend to limit ourselves to inner city schools, orphanages, and hospitals, and you're right that we need contacts and partners to help, so I've been asking around as many places of information as possible, Tribe being one out of many. I am still learning Spanish, although we have several people in our circus that speak Spanish fluently as well as a few native speakers. We're communicating with organizations connected to the Quecha and Amayran communities and trying to see what we can do safely with the populations without becoming modes of imperialism and globilization. Of course I'm aware of the circus culture in South America, hence my excitement to travel down there. I suppose my post should have read "teach and be taught". We're aware of the U.S. government's views on Bolivia and Peru, and one of our reasons for touring is to show that not all Americans share the close-minded views of our government. Where in the area did you live? When you say you have "serious concern" do you mean concern for our own well-being, for potential cultural damage we might cause, or both? I admit that I've been increasingly worried about inadvertedly making a wrong move, so your post gave me a bit to think about. I'd love to listen to any advice you'd be willing to share, if you're interested. You can see more about what Dreamtime Circus is at www.dreamtimecircus.org. Thanks again for the tip, and we'll definitely be bringing a video camera to share afterwards. Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:32:50 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#61f64fda-06ab-4e61-8ce8-d24fb351ea11 Alex 2008-12-12T23:32:50Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#2ddd2884-efdd-49d2-9a8c-139f79033467 You can start by putting the words "circo malabarismo bolivia peru ecuador" into google There will be thousands of hits. I sure hope that you are more informed than you sound because I get a red flag up when you say: "planning to bring a 15 person circus down to where ever we can to perform and teach impoverished areas" Really? And you are asking for contacts on tribe.net? Do you have any partners "down there" yet? A schedule? An itinerary? It seems to me that you need to be much better informed and connected to make such plans. Do any of you speak Spanish well? Any connection with the large Native American populations? Do you know that Central and South America have a rich and vibrant circus culture? You might find that you have much to learn from the people "down there" not just something to teach. There are a lot of other things going on in those three countries "down there" as well that you should be aware of before planning a 15 person trip to the area. 2 of those countries have governments that are not our State Department's favorites, which speaks well for them. I lived in this part of the world for 9 years so I react to that kind of statement with some serious concern. My hope is that a lot of that concern is not justified. If you speak Spanish with a high level of fluency, get some answers to the questions I have just asked, develop a serious set of partners and inform yourselves about the area you could have a fantastic time, have much to share with folk in Greater Bolivia and have much to share with us when you come back. Take a few video cameras with you please. Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:09:46 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#2ddd2884-efdd-49d2-9a8c-139f79033467 don 2008-12-12T12:09:46Z http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#af2affbf-c106-4c15-bdf9-259eff428593 Hello everyone! Right now, I'm currently researching different parts of South America, hoping to find any circus/ juggling/ humanitarian organizations in the Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia area. We're planning to bring a 15 person circus down to where ever we can to perform and teach impoverished areas and we'd love some connections to help us get things started. If you have any ideas or contacts you'd feel comfortable sharing, please let me know. Thanks bunches and bunches Alex Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:28:03 GMT http://jugglenet.tribe.net/thread/c1121627-e35a-43a4-b19c-9df3249db4fa#af2affbf-c106-4c15-bdf9-259eff428593 Alex 2008-12-12T00:28:03Z